. >> even more, listen to what he said to his friend sean hannity. listen to what he said to his friend sean hannity. i mean, it would be unhealthy. it was unhealthy to have all that exposure for our candidates. yeah, it was because you had a bunch of crackpots running for president and they did wound themselves every time they got out there. there were enough debates for perry to forget which agencies he was going to abolish in the federal government. right? so, yeah, i can see from his perspective, you want to go to the friendly confines of fox news. you want to have loving moderators like a sean hannity. you want to tell your story there. the problem is that that did not work in 2012. in fact, living in the friendly confines of fox news made those republicans think they were going to win, that they could beat barack obama, that he wasn't a popular president. >> let's go back to reality, joan, with this. as your point is made, there's a long tradition ofnous anchors moderating debates. i moderated the republican debate at the reagan library last el